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EVcast #231: Fifteen Minutes and Fifty Six Seconds

Friday, May 1st 2009 @ 1:31 PM (not yet rated)    post viewed 5271 times

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John Briggs
Free Access
JohnBriggs said on Friday, May 1st 2009 @ 11:23 PM:

Update on the Tango, 6 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK96CqwKk9E

 

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Paul Cummings
Free Access
PaulCummings said on Friday, May 1st 2009 @ 11:45 PM:

Very entertaining video guys, even if you did flip-flop the cuts where you put your gloves on;-)  Now go enjoy a long weekend for a change - y'all have earned it.

And thanks for the Tango Video, John- it is such a differnt, interesting car, I enjoy watching footage of it.  I hope they can come out with a cheaper one.  Hey, if its cool enough for George Clooney to drive, then I could see myself in one.

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John Briggs
Free Access
JohnBriggs said on Saturday, May 2nd 2009 @ 9:02 AM:

Paul,
    I like the Tango as well.
    One nice thing about the EV marketplace is it gives people a chance to rethink the automobile from a clean sheet of paper.  Products like Aptera, Tango, and NMG really show that a 4-door sedan is not the only way to travel around.

   On an unrelated note, I got a test ride in a 2010 Honda Insight.  This is a very nice car.  Similar to the Prius in many ways, but a more traditional dashboard layout.  The Prius is more fuel efficient, but the Insight is cheaper.

Later
John C. Briggs

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John Briggs
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JohnBriggs said on Saturday, May 2nd 2009 @ 9:14 AM:

So what does a Ford Taurus cost?  $25-$37K.  The Model S is $49K (after rebates), Let's see what the Taurus + gasoline costs being very generous to Tesla

          19 mpg
 100,000 miles
     5263 gallons
         $3 per gallon
$15,789  in gasoline
$37,170  for Taurus
$52,959 for Taurus and Gasoline

       0.25 kwh/mile
 100,000 mies
   25000 KWH
      0.19 $/kwh
 $4,750 for electricity
$49,000 for Model S
$53,750 for Model S and Electricity

So the most expensive Ford Taurus does seem comparable for cost of ownership to the Model S over 100,000 miles.

2010 Ford Taurus Sedan
SE        
FWD 3.5L V6 Auto N/A $25,170
SEL        FWD 3.5L V6 Auto N/A $27,170
SEL        AWD 3.5L V6 Auto N/A $29,020
Limited  
FWD 3.5L V6 Auto N/A $31,170
Limited   AWD 3.5L V6 Auto N/A $33,020
SHO     AWD 3.5L V6 T Auto N/A $37,170

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John Briggs
Free Access
JohnBriggs said on Monday, May 4th 2009 @ 9:46 PM:

Now from Dean Kamen (the man that brought us the Segway) is a new kind of Hybrid EV.  2 minutes 43 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-MT2-aYb3I

Stirling Engine

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Fredderick Miller
EVcast Individual Supporter
RodMiller said on Tuesday, May 5th 2009 @ 12:58 AM:

John:

Thanks for the calculation. It is interesting.  What if you adapted the analysis to 150K miles.  Which do you think would die first the taurass or the model-$? I know Ford is in better financial shape sort of.  I have known a number of people with Fords that die at 100k.  They seem to have a real problem with transmissions.  Maybe they import parts from Jamacia for them.   Rasta manufacturing at its best.

Fred

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Paul Cummings
Free Access
PaulCummings said on Tuesday, May 5th 2009 @ 2:21 AM:

Good video on Dean Kamen's altered Think car.  I read about this conversion a few months ago- it was part of a longer, very insightful article on Dean Kamen.  I cannot find that article now, but here is another that also talks a bit more about the Converted Think:  http://www.freeenergy.ca/news/117/ARTICLE/1464/2008-11-17.html

As usual, his ideas are original- it is a much more mild range extender than the Vol'ts- it will only recharge the battery at the same rate the battery is depleted up to 45 MPH- after that, you will run out of juice and either have to slow down or let it sit for a bit.  Dean is nothing if not creative- it will be interesting to see if this vehicle ever makes it past the one prototype he has now.

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DavidGalea said on Tuesday, May 5th 2009 @ 6:41 AM:

Nice work John,

 

Your calculations are spot on. I only wish the Model S was available outside the US.

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John Briggs
Free Access
JohnBriggs said on Tuesday, May 5th 2009 @ 7:51 AM:

Fred,
    Right 150,000 miles might be a good number because I think California requires EVs to have a 150,000 mile/10 year warranty on the electric drivetrain.  But there are some things to keep in mind.

1) While some people have had bad experiences with Fords, no Tesla vehicles have gotten to 100,000 miles.  So as much as a fanboy of Tesla as I am, I would have to give Ford the benefit of higher reliability for now.

2) No Li-Ion battery packs have made it to 100,000 miles, never mind 150,000 miles.  So I am a little worried about them for the moment.  I know the RAV-4 and Prius experience suggest a long life for NiMH, but other than that, I have seldom seen any battery last more than 4 years.

3)  The future price of energy (both gasoline and electricity) are a huge uncertainty in these calculations.  As we push forward with renewable energy, the price of electricity might rise steadily from the current bargain prices.  On the other hand, EVs might be given preferred pricing on electricity to encourage EV use.  On the gasoline side, I guess we all expect gasoline to go back up to $4/gallon, but it is difficult to know.

  Elon's comment about the Model S versus the Taurus should be given some credit and not be seen just as a marketing effort.  While I personally am not in a position to spend $37,000 or $50,000 on a vehicle, many people are and those people should know that the added cost of the Tesla might be offset in the long term.

  Too bad we are not debating these points about a vehicle that could actually be purchased.
Later
John C. Briggs

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Rick Covert
Free Access
RickCovert said on Tuesday, May 5th 2009 @ 2:03 PM:

John,

3 dollars seems high right now but I'm under no illusions that $1.89 gasoline in Houston is going to remain that way for long. Going by my experience with American made cars (admittedly all made in the 1970s or 1980s) when you factor in regular items like air filter changes (no small cost these days), oil changes, radiator flushes, muffler replacement, fuel injector cleaning that these will clearly tip the balance in favor of EVs.

It gets worse when you factor in the other parts from the ICE engine that have in my experience broken constantly on my car from the water pump that wants to leak every two years ('76 Ford Pinto), the alternator that broke 3 times in one year, the radiator that needed recoring, replacing the electric starter motor, and the electronic ignition pickup coil that needed replacing ('79 Chrysler Newport) and a Tesla Model S looks like a bargain by comparison.

Rick, from the oil capitol of the world, Houston, Texas. Smile

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John Briggs
Free Access
JohnBriggs said on Wednesday, May 6th 2009 @ 12:40 PM:

Rick,
   Granted, there are more parts to go wrong with an ICE car.

   However, sounds like Tesla is sending hot and cold water to the battery pack, so you might still have a water pump failure.

Later
John C. Briggs

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