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The Myth of the Forbes Article: The Myth of the Electric Car

Thursday, March 19th 2009 @ 8:46 AM    post viewed 2834 times

Once again, Forbes.com's columnist Jerry Flint publishes an article that causes readers to raise doubts on the practicality of the electric car.  Like his other articles, this article is well written and entertaining.  Unfortunately, the assumptions made by Mr. Flint are way off base and his lack of understanding for both the electric vehicle industry and the associated technology are more than apparent by those in the industry.

He begins by telling a story about his time with the Wall Street Journal back in the 60's.  The bottom line was the Ford VP at the time told him that their 10 year plan for the electric car was a running target, and was always 10 years away.  Very funny, and most likely very true.

Now that the author has your attention and your trust by telling you a personal story that makes you smile, he goes for the kill.

It takes three minutes to refuel a car today, and refueling stations are everywhere. It takes all night to recharge an e-car, and there really aren't any recharging stations around. Building them would be an enormously costly program.

The "recharging station" he is referring to is your HOME.  Well actually there are a few of these around, about 120 million compared to the 120,000 or so gas stations in the US.  As for building public recharging stations, according to recharging infrastructure leaders, the cost for a charging station can vary between $1000-$5000 per station depending on location, current electrical infrastucture and features of the charging station. At an average of $2500 per station (let's say two units per station), it would cost about $600 million to build a nationwide charging infrastructure.  That is how much the US spends on oil imports in 46 HOURS.  Mr. Flint, do you still think building such an infrastucture would be "enormously costly"?

The chief of advanced engineering at Daimler says talk of recharging in minutes are fantasies and would ruin the lifetime of the batteries. He thinks two hours, an hour and a half at minimum. Of course, what does he know, right?

It is not what he knows it's what he doesn't know. No disrespect to one automaker's one engineer, but there are literally dozens of very respectable firms working on this technology (that we know of).  While Daimler is convinced it can't be done, other firms are working on how it can be done.

"While theoretically and technically television may be feasible, commercially and financially it is an impossibility." -- Lee DeForest, inventor.

As for cost, none want to say what they are paying for batteries.

Exact costs aren't given because they change so rapidly and many are estimated based on production estimates.  GM says VOLT's first generation batteries will cost them "hundreds less than 1k per kwh", and Tesla recently estimated their 56kwh system (240miles range) at $35k.  There is no conspricy here, just variable costs.

But replacing them [batteries] is always going to cost more than an oil change, believe me.

Ya think?  This is like saying replacing the septic system in your house will always cost more than vacuuming your rug.  Another bad analogy.  Replacing the batteries in your EV (GM VOLT for example guarantees these batteries for 10 years) is more analogous to the cost of gasoline over the life of the batteries.

And the range is tied to the number of batteries. E-car believers think a 40-mile range is enough, but who would pay $30,000 for a car with a 40-mile range?

Honesty, I have no idea where he is getting these numbers. A 40 mile range will take care of more than 70% of the average American's daily driving.  I am guessing he is referring to the Chevy VOLT here since it has a 40 mile all electric range, and after tax credits will be about $30k for first generation, second gen significantly cheaper.  But, man, did he leave out a very important fact... the VOLT is a extended range electric vehicle (EREV) meaning it has a small gas tank to extend the range similar to most cars today. So he should pose the question "Who would pay $30,000 for a car with a several hundred mile range -- the first 40-miles all electric?".  The answer, "I'll take one!"

As for his closing statement:

But most of the cars built in the world--the overwhelming majority--will be run on internal combustion engines, gasoline or diesel, for many decades.

I will let some very bright people respond to that...

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.

"With over 50 foreign cars already on sale here, the Japanese auto industry isn't likely to carve out a big slice of the U.S. market." -- Business Week, August 2, 1968.

If you doubt me, just remember the Arjay straight eight.

Sorry Mr. Flint, I don't doubt you, just your beleifs, opinions, and conclusions.

With Respect,

Bo Bennett, Host of the EVcast
http://www.evcast.com

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Comments

gray
Free Access
gray said on Thursday, March 19th 2009 @ 1:34 PM:

nit: Tesla's battery was estimated at $30k not $35k.  

That price was the customer cost for replacement of an existing battery - meaning the company was charging a profit for the part.  The wholesale cost of the part for a car manufacturer as a percentage of the electric vehicle's cost would be less.

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Gavin Shoebridge
Free Access
KiwiEV said on Thursday, March 19th 2009 @ 2:29 PM:

This is one of those stories where you just have to let it go. As innacurate as it is, the damage is done and it makes our job of proving articles like this wrong a little harder but we shall persevere.

One way to look at it: Perhaps by lowering public expectations he's actually making the EV appealing and he's indirectly helping our cause? No, actually I don't beleive that one either... Hehe

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John Briggs
Free Access
JohnBriggs said on Thursday, March 19th 2009 @ 7:53 PM:

Bo,
   This is a very nice point-by-point rebuttal.

    Perhaps it is typical of editorial style, but it is disappointing that Mr. Flint didn't bother to acknowlege at least one (perhaps more) advantage of EV's.  I don't care for these type of one sided articles.

    I must say, this is one thing I like about the EVCast, it seems more balanced.  The discussion is Pro-EV but willing to clearly spell out the limitations.  Well Done.

Later
John C. Briggs

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Ryan Gibbs
EVcast Individual Supporter
RyanGibbs1 said on Friday, March 20th 2009 @ 9:26 AM:

"I must say, this is one thing I like about the EVCast, it seems more balanced.  The discussion is Pro-EV but willing to clearly spell out the limitations.  Well Done."


I couldn't agree more. After listening to the live show on Thursday and going over a few of the older shows it is great to see how open and non-biased the information on this site is. I mean sure we are all fans of EVs but we acknowledge others views and enter into a discussion as opposed to the prove internal combustion people who just say "I'm right and your wrong"

Gav, His article in forbes reminds me a lot of the one sided journalism we are seeing here in New Zealand at the moment regarding investment in the railway systen versus investment in roading

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Fredderick Miller
EVcast Individual Supporter
RodMiller said on Friday, March 20th 2009 @ 12:37 PM:

Bo:

Try to find a print media, maybe forbes to publish your rebuttal.  Maybe the New York Times?

Fred

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Guest
a guest said on Monday, March 23rd 2009 @ 11:22 AM:

I come from the automotive and diesel industry and really like your take on EV technology. I think you're right - most of the infrastructure and technical issues cited in the Forbes article will be overcome very quickly as adoption of these cars increases. Where there's a market and a dollar to be made - there's a way...

Batteries are only expensive because battery manufacturers aren't making oodles of them yet. As with any battery technology these will become smaller, cheaper, more durable, and will increase lifespan as our demand for them increases. Continuing increases in hybrid adoption will help.

As spring break season continues - the interesting thing to me will be the implications of limited range (even if up to several hundred miles) on the airline and rail industries or on local economies as EV adoption increases - assuming auto/battery OEMs are slow to find solutions for recharging in minutes. American families often tend to get in the car and drive to Florida, "out west" etc. for leisure time. This means families will either retain one combustion engine vehicle, spend more time locally, or spend more money on air/rail.

Hybrid technology will also likely be the standard for larger vehicles for some years to come (RVs, Work/Delivery Trucks, etc.) Those batteries are currently the size of my kitchen and battery alone may not provide the power needed to operate the hardest working applications.

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guest
guest
a guest said on Friday, August 21st 2009 @ 10:15 AM:

You are missing the point, Flint is simply stating there is much work to be done before the electric car can be produced affordably and practical enough to become mainstream.  His opening story explains major car companies have already been working on electric cars for 4 decades (40 years) and we are still decades away.  Also published today, An electric car will displace a conventional sedan burning maybe 5,000 gallons of gas over its 150,000 mile life span. That much gasoline produces not even 50 tons of carbon dioxide. But electricity comes from power plants that emit CO2, too. Even if an electric vehicle is four times more efficient than a normal car, the price tag to reduce CO2 is about $200 -- $250 a ton. Still too high to significantly impact CO2 emissions...

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Eric Rodda
EVcast Individual Supporter
EricRodda said on Tuesday, March 9th 2010 @ 7:43 AM:

Very good responses Bo. You did a great job.

Eric

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