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November 2008 Posts
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Good show guys! Interesting interview, especially about the carbon-nanotube enhanced battery. The idea of increasing the surface area is being explored by a few people- in fact the Firefly battery uses a lead-foam to increase the internal surface area, but has not claimed such a large increase in power and the amount of charge-discharges during the battery life. It will be interesting to see if their specs really are this good. I've said before, that there will be a market for lower-cost lead acid batteries for EV's, even without such a claimed jump in the CMT battery. The link to their site is: http://www.microbubbletech.com/
And, the link for Stephan Kaufman EV site, for an International flavor, is: http://www.ecocarforum.com/
And a big welcome back to our resident EVNUT, Darell D;-)
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Piaggio USA (Three wheeled scooters)
http://www.piaggiousa.com/index.cfm
AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries
A newer type of sealed battery uses "Absorbed Glass Mats", or AGM between the plates. This is a very fine fiber Boron-Silicate glass mat. These type of batteries have all the advantages of gelled, but can take much more abuse. We sell the Concorde (and Lifeline, made by Concorde) AGM batteries. These are also called "starved electrolyte", as the mat is about 95% saturated rather than fully soaked. That also means that they will not leak acid even if broken.
Since all the electrolyte (acid) is contained in the glass mats, they cannot spill, even if broken. This also means that since they are non-hazardous, the shipping costs are lower. In addition, since there is no liquid to freeze and expand, they are practically immune from freezing damage.
Nearly all AGM batteries are "recombinant" - what that means is that the Oxygen and Hydrogen recombine INSIDE the battery. These use gas phase transfer of oxygen to the negative plates to recombine them back into water while charging and prevent the loss of water through electrolysis. The recombining is typically 99+% efficient, so almost no water is lost.
The charging voltages are the same as for any standard battery - no need for any special adjustments or problems with incompatible chargers or charge controls. And, since the internal resistance is extremely low, there is almost no heating of the battery even under heavy charge and discharge currents. The Concorde (and most AGM) batteries have no charge or discharge current limits.
AGM's have a very low self-discharge - from 1% to 3% per month is usual. This means that they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging than standard batteries. The Concorde batteries can be almost fully recharged (95% or better) even after 30 days of being totally discharged.
AGM's do not have any liquid to spill, and even under severe overcharge conditions hydrogen emission is far below the 4% max specified for aircraft and enclosed spaces. The plates in AGM's are tightly packed and rigidly mounted, and will withstand shock and vibration better than any standard battery.
Even with all the advantages listed above, there is still a place for the standard flooded deep cycle battery. AGM's will cost 2 to 3 times as much as flooded batteries of the same capacity. In many installations, where the batteries are set in an area where you don't have to worry about fumes or leakage, a standard or industrial deep cycle is a better economic choice. AGM batteries main advantages are no maintenance, completely sealed against fumes, Hydrogen, or leakage, non-spilling even if they are broken, and can survive most freezes. Not everyone needs these features.
The Piaggio site currently does not have info on their hybrid scooter- at least, not that I could find;-) However, you can see it here: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/08/19/more-on-piaggios-hybrid-scooters-with-pictures/
The good thing is that Piaggio is a long-time scooter-motorcycle maker. Their Vespa scooters have been sold in Europe for decades, and have a good reputation. They also have hundreds of dealers here in the US. This could be an interesting entry in the EV market. Besides, the more makers of EV's, the quicker their acceptance, especially when traditional manufacturers start joining the party.
Time marker 17:38
Looking to deliver between 13 and 20 batteries (presumably for each car), at 43 pounds per battery assuming 20 batteries, this is 860 pounds and at 12 V per battery it is 240 volts. The Electric City motor in the Current is 43KW. They (Electric City) are getting 1 hour of operation out of the existing battery (whatever that is). But this implies a 43KWH battery pack. If We (CNT battery people) pulled 43KW, we would be 2.68hours. So this implies 115KWH battery pack, compared with 53KWH for the Tesla.
We (CNT battery people) projecting, under regular driving situations, we can get about 4 hours or 350 miles without a problem.
Let’s Look at the data on the website. They have a standard battery listed as “Control” and then another battery (modified) listed as 0.04mg (whatever that means). Control 126AH x 12V = 1.5 KWH per battery CNT battery 960AH x 12V = 11.5 KWH per battery
Assume 20 batteries per car Control = 30 KWH per car CNT battery = 230 KWH per car
So there is a little bit of disconnect here. In the show, the information that he gave suggested a 115 KWH battery pack and the website information is 230 KWH. Interestingly this is exactly a factor of 2X different.
On the good side, someone claiming a 350 mile range is consistent in claiming a 115 KWH battery pack. Whether or not the battery delivers is another problem. But at least it is a self consistent claim.
The 5 minute charge time is also interesting. He sounds like he is really doing it in this lab. For a single battery, assuming 5.75 KWH/battery and a 5 minute charge is 0.83 hours which implies 69 KW out of the wall. A standard outlet is 120V and 20A so 2.4KW. So there is NO WAY he can get 69 KW out of a 2.4 KW wall outlet. Furthermore, this is only for one battery. If the pack is 20 batteries, you need 20X an impossibly large number. This is not going to happen and the fact that this guy does not know that really damages his credibility.
Further damaging credibility is MicroBubble’s other technology which is a form of gasoline that is 40% water. Here comes the water-car again.
I laughed when I heard Michael Siegel referred to ST as ET by mistake. Freudian slip?Phoonne hoooome.
People in Marketing, tend to have, Pet Names for ones they work with. I read, last week, that the, CNT Lithium Ion Batteries Proved Up, but what about the Lead Acid CNT's? I don't care if ET used an umbrella, saw blade and a record player, as long as I get the projected range of 300-400 mi. in my 30 year old Jet Electra. By the way why is the stock still flat?
Sparky
