EVcast #59: Tata Motors and the "Air-Powered Car"

Bo,
   I am very skeptical of this technology, but this was a great interview.

   It is funny how many companies are in this position of having great claims and no way to prove them.  Of course, MDI is in better shape than many of these companies.  At least they have a prototype that you can see, and hear.  Unfortunately, there is still a long way from this stage to some third party verification.

   If we take Mr. Vencat's claim at face value.

ICE car   30% efficient  (perhaps up to 50% with diesel)
Air car    50% efficient
EV         70% efficient  (he says batteries can lose up to 30%)

I have heard higher numbers for EVs (like 90% efficient) but even using his numbers, it seems like EVs are more efficient.

   We need to get the Automotive X-Prize people to tease out the real efficiency of these vehicles.

Thanks
John C. Briggs

I guess we can talk tomorrow about FOSH's big non-event.

I think here is the trade-off with an Air car vs an EV car- no weight and COST of the batteries!  So, even though it may not be as efficient, it may be cheaper to run.  What I really think is their future, however, is an all-air NEV (NAV?) or Medium Speed NAV- then you can produce a car with virtually no maintenance, no battery replacement, and for about  5-10,000 dollars less than a comparable NEV (guestimating the battery cost).  So- what their future depends on is NO battery advancement;-)

http://www.theaircar.com/air-cars/compressed-air-history.html

The Air Car literature is a strange combination of apparently real products (air powered locomotives from the 1900's) and wingnuts developing "perpetual motion" machines.  The history of the Air Cars contains several references to engines that use the compressed air to run the engine and then after it runs the engine, the air gets recompressed.  Thus it is a perpetual motion machine.

The air compressor which worked when the engine was running, would ensure that the cylinder was filled to capacity at all times. Thus Hill’s engine would realize the principle of perpetual motion.

  It also has a lengthy discussion of how underground caverns can be used to store compressed air that can later be released to create electricity.  This technology does seem to be real, however its relivance to the Air Car is not clear.  I guess this is to prove that people do store energy in compressed air.

   After reading some of this information, I am really worried about these guys.  Anyone that is not smart enough to remove claims of perpetual motion from their website shouldn't be running a company.  Perpetual motion does not exist and anyone with any training in engineering or science should know this.  They guys apparently don't know this.

   Also, there seems to be too much information about investing in the company and not enough information on the products.  It reminds me of the WIRED expose on ZAP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmqpGZv0YT4

I think this is a good video of the Air Car and something similar in Australia. 

One thing confuses me is that Mr Vencat talked about using a gasoline engine to compress the air but the video seems to be about pure air power.

  One outrageous claim is that a hybrid version of the Air Car would allow it to drive 4000Km on one tank of gasoline and a tank of air.

I think the add-on gas engine, or 'range extender,' is a more recent developement- I think for years Guy Negre's (the MDA founder in France) focus was on an Air Engine, and so almost all of the early prototypes were pure AV's (as opposed to EV's;-)  In fact, I think Mr. Vencat mentions something like this during the interview. 

The discussion seemed to seamlessly blend current technology with possible future technology.  This is very unsettling and not something you would get from, say, GM.  GM makes it clear when the are talking about the current "plan of record" for a vehicle versus future ideas.  MDI people talk in a disturbing "free flowing" way about the technology.  This is very unsettling.

And now for something completely different...

John - glad to see you enjoyed "Charging Ahead", I brought my copy to the office for Bo to read, with the recommendation that he interview James Worden - cross your fingers!  Apologies for following up a day late about the current read - it's "The End of Detroit, How the Big Three Lost Their Grip on the American Car Market" by Micheline Maynard -

http://www.bookreporter.com/reviews/0385507704.asp

How about you?

Jason,
   Thanks for the information.  I am reading

Electric and hybrid cars : a history / Curtis D. Anderson and Judy Anderson.

Thanks

John C. Brggs

@johnbriggs

It is very very important to understand that the people running the aircar.com site are not MDI. You are correct to be skeptical of them and some of their claims, but you must remember to make the distinction between them and MDI.

Thanks for the clarification between MDI and Aircars.

I notice a previous commenter posted a link to aircar.com, but I think your readers should be aware of the fact that the operators of this site are not affiliated with Mr. Vencat or ZPM/MDI.

I agree, this website is very sketchy, that's why everyone should know to ignore them!

~DARKSTAR