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Way too technical, but here is Georgia Institute of Technology paper claiming 1 hour pulse charging vs 3.5 hour DC charging for Li-Ion batteries.
http://www.chbe.gatech.edu/kohl/Publication%20Articles/95-The%20effects%20of%20pulse%20charging%20on%20cylcing%20characteristics%20of%20commercial%20lithium-ion%20batteries.pdf
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Well, Elliott Small got the physics almost right.
There are two forces to worry about here, rolling resistance and air resistance. It is the air resistance that is a problem at higher speeds because the force increases with the velocity SQUARED. So when you double the speed from 30MPH to 60MPH, the force due to air is four times 4X greater. This kills the range.
Bo, I think your experience with bicycles and gears has more to do with the optimal speed for operating a human body. There is a limit to how fast you can move your feet. ICE engines have similar limitations. Electric motors work over a large speed range and need only a single speed gear box (or maybe two speeds).
Poor Elliott got a little off track with sliding something across the table. I don't think this illustrates the important feature of air drag.
"Lack of a Suitable Battery"
Frankly, I don't care if you are GM or someone else, the real problem with EVs is "Lack of a Suitable Battery." The problem is not the motors, or the controllers, or the heat or AC or anything else. The problem is the battery.
There are a few related issues a that make the battery "unsuitable"1) The cost is too high2) The KWH capacity is too low (can't get 400 mile range)3) The weight is too high (1000 lbs)
I am not sure why Bo picks on GM's complaint about the battery. We all know the problem is the battery. The fact that Bo might accept a 1000 pound, $50,000, 160 mile range battery does not make it "suitable" to the average car buying public.
Regarding the "lack of suitable Battery" excuse/reason. Keep in mind that according to many drivers/lessees of the EV1, the car worked perfectly for their needs on the lead acid batteries which were not at all costly. I did not think the cost of the nickel-metal hydride batteries were much of an issue as well, but the real cost issue was in producing the car in such low quantities.
They use the word "suitable" -- suitable for what? Driving cross-country? Sure, then there was not suitable battery. But even as a 60-70 mile commuter vehicle, the EV1 with the old, crappy, cheap, lead acid's worked just fine for many people.
Which circles around to my point. Were there enough people willing to pay the high price to buy/lease the car based on the limitations? My take is no. For GM to attempt to answer a very complex question in a few sentences is a real blow-off answer to me. To blame the batteries for what ultimately was a poor business decision (killing the EV1 project - admitted by many GM execs on many occasions) shows a lack of straight-forwardness that I would now expect to find in most of their answers on that site.
Good for GM for facing customer concerns head on, and, if I am wrong (after all, it is only my opinion which is based on my knowledge of the subject from readings, first hand interviews, and interpreting readings/interviews), then my apologies to GM. But truthfully, they don't need any apologies from me since I am a real GM fanboy to heart.
So Bo your logic is
Batteries cause limitations (short range and/or high price) Limitations reduce the number of customers A reduced number of customers means it cannot be a business for GM.
I don't have a problem with that.
But all GM is doing is starting at the root of the problem, the battery and saying the battery is "unsuitable". It is the source of the limitations and the resulting lost of number of customers.
Also, I don't know why GM gets hit so hard on this point (not just by you). Toyota, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan all behaved in the same way. They leased the vehicles because they had to and pulled them back when they could.
I am a little worried that "Who Killed the Electric Car" is building a strong any GM mentality.
I apologize for being so pro toyota in my voice mail about the volt versus the plug-in prius. The fact is, if the volt were available today I would sell my prius as fast as I could and buy the volt (unfortunately it is not and toyota is not offering anything either). What I should have said was just because the volt is a series hybrid doesn't mean it is any better than the pruis parallel hybrid (and vice versus). I believe that both could provide what we want which is an all electric vehicle until the batteries are depleted. I hope that both gm and toyota provide electric cars, then people can choose whichever car they want.
I do think that right now toyota does have the lead in front of gm because they are selling a car that could eventually be a competior to the volt. Toyota is not doing enough. They still are not making enough of the prius to meet the demand, they also have not advanced the prius for the last 5 years. People are paying $10,000 to $20,000 to add batteries to their existing prius because toyota is not making what people want which is an electric vehicle. Hopefully toyota and gm will hurry up and make the car that people are asking for.
A couple of interview question requests - when you interview the Solar Tree guy, can you ask how much they cost, and when you interview the Georgia Tech guy, can you ask if the rapid recharge has any impact on battery life?
I agree with Bo on the 'suitable battery' excuse. It's lame. The batteries in the EV1 and RAV4 EV were/are perfectly suitable. GM could have continued to develop the batteries further if they weren't satisfied with them. Batteries are no excuse for scrapping the whole program and destroying all existing EV1s.
If the batteries were "Suitable", someone GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan... would have made a business out of this. The fact that everyone ran for the exits as soon as possible shows you just how "unsuitable" the batteries were.
All the EV supporters need to get used to this fact, because it is still an issue today. As EVs are reintroduced to the market today, we will see limitation of both range and high price. The problem has not gone away.
Also, anyone that wants to be critical of GM should also realize that they have also been a leader in finding a solution to the battery problem. It is a E-REV with 40 mile electric range and a gas engine used for longer trips. That is the answer (maybe) to the "unsuitable" batteries, brought to you by the good people at GM (not Ford, not Chrysler, not Toyota, not Nissan).
GM makes the most advanced EV in the world (EV1) in 1999 and the most advanced EV in the world (Volt) in 2010 and they continue to get grief about it.
