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May 2010 Posts
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[1:09:22] Join Bo, Ryan, and Paul Scott EV enthusiast and VP for Plug-in-America for a look at this week's EV news!
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Don't just listen to the EVcast -- experience and be a part of it! Join us at 1:00pm Eastern, M-F, in our live video broadcast and chat along with us!
I really enjoyed the show guys, and enjoyed Paul Scott- he is both enjoyable to listen to, and very knowledgeable.
Bo and Ryan are of one mind? Does that mean they have half a mind to tell each other;-)
I think one of the reasons the US Battery Consortium is shooting for a HIGHER price than Nissan has today, 5 years from now, is that the US Lithium Battery Industry is 15 years behind Asian companies. Same reason for GM's battery price being higher- plus, GM's batteries are going to be more expensive because of the extensive battery management included so their battery will last a decade, at least.
Hydrogen cars! ~sigh~ Can't we just let these things go gracefully into the sunset! EVs are now being made for 30-45,000 dollars- 5 years from now EVs will be even cheaper, and their 'fuel' will always be cheaper in, as Paul Scott pointed out, terms of the elecricity needed to do the same work.
Th!nk is an interesting company to watch, to see if they succeed or not- cash-flow positive in another year or so? Hmmmm
What is interesting, considering Nissan's Lithium price coming down, and Th!nk rising from the dead- remember the interview y'all did with Susan Eustis of Wintergreen (EVCast 190) who did a study on EVs and Solar? Her report was met with some skeptisism- it will be interesting to re-visit that study a year or two from now.
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Regarding the battery price, I am a little confused. The retail price for consumers is less than $400/KWH.
http://evcomponents.com/cscart/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29851
Thundersky battery
3.2 volts400ah3.2*400= 1,280 WH = 1.28 KWHbattery price $440$440/1.28KWH = $343.75
They also have Sky Energy batteries available at the price.
So if this number is correct, Nissan paying $375/KWH seems too high.
Perhaps there is some Spec's-manship going on here but I think Li-Ion batteries may be cheaper than people thought. Bare in mind that Lead Acid batteries are more like $100/KWH. So I don't see why $100/KWH for Li-Ion batteries would be impossible at some point.
LaterJohn C. Briggs
John,
The prices you are quoting are cell prices. Using those batteries from Thundersky, you still need a battery management system to handle discharge and cell balancing on recharge. Those batteries also come with little or no safety system for thermal runaway. In fact they sell a fireproof bag that they encourage you to use when you recharge their batteries.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX1MdkSU56M
Here is a link to the white paper on the Tesla battery pack technology and you can see how much engineering went into keeping the cells safe
http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/TeslaRoadsterBatterySystem.pdf
So if it is about $300 for just the cell, $375 is a good price for a complete battery. I am sure Bo and Ryan are going to go over this article which clarifies Nissan's battery price.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/15/nissan-leaf-profitable-by-year-three-battery-cost-closer-to-18/
Josh Bryant
