EVcast #365. Formerly Stupid Now Funny Electric Vehicles

Here's my review: without the financial backing needed by major automakers to bring electric cars to mass market, independent EV fans have been faced with ridicule for simply trying to be innovative on very limited budgets. God bless them! Were it not for these "stupid" electric vehicles, whether 3- or 4-wheels, it's doubtful that Nissan, Mitsubishi, Toyota, and especially GM would have finally realized THE REAL CURRENT and growing consumer demand for alternative transportation.

There is a novelty aspect for models like Aptera and Myers Motors that loyal car collectors love. What's stupid about wanting a collectible? Nothing! To me, it's an investment like art, but cars are even better because they're something we can actually use with a practical purpose. Even ZAP and ZENN are SMART (word play here!) in that they save tons of money in fuel costs.

So Joe and Eric, please re-phrase the title: FUNNY Electric Vehicles. Because any way I see them, they prove amusing in all shapes and forms. As for what will be the ultimate drive moving production electric cars forward, the answers are always constant: range, speed, fueling accessibility, comfort, style, reliability and safety. Traditional industry standards like these will never change.

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Very disappointing EVcast but reinforces the American view of transport and excessive energy use. Maybe we need Apple to enter the EV marketing scene? I’m sure they could create a “must have” product??

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Reinforces the American view of transport and excessive energy use? What does that mean? Sacrifice for the sake of showing your virtue is all well and good, but it is supposed to be personal. What I am saying is that we have already learned the lesson of the Seabring Vanguard CitiCar. If the only reason behind you purchase is because of a momentary period of time when gasoline prices are high, then when things change, those vehicles tend not to have a market. Vehicles that tend to remain in the market tend to have a greater utility. A one seat car is a highly limited vehicle that can only be used for commutes. A two seater is better, but typically people buy two seat vehicles for other reasons, (likes and tastes) such as they are a sports car, etc. Four seaters begin to enter the meat of the market. Four seaters that have room for groceries have a wider utility and therefore have a wider appeal. I believe a vehicle that can fulfill most of the likes, tastes and utility that a family needs will be a vehicle that will have the best chance of entering the market and staying. A mini-van like cute utility vehicle that has a sporty design will probably have the widest appeal since it can be used as a commuter car, a family car for soccer moms and grocery shopping, it can also haul some useful items for home maintenance and improvement. What I am saying is bring back something akin to the RAV4 EV. The energy efficiency of that vehicle is unarguable, especially comparing it to its gasoline counterpart. You are a free person my man and if you want to get a one seat micro mobile, you can certainly do that. There may be enough of people who have your way of thinking to sustain a market for just that type of vehicle. However, I believe, that a vehicle like I described would be purchased by far more people and would not perpetuate America excessive energy use, but clearly encompass a win for the automakers, a win for consumers and a win for efficiency and a cleaner environment. 

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Thanks for taking note of my comments! Joe, you are correct that for mass consumerism, a 4-seater is needed. I know this personally after handling Electric Car sales. I would have sold many more ZENN had they been 4-seaters; this was often a deal breaker for customers who wanted a 2nd car for local errands that would accommodate 2+ children since kids are constantly being driven locally around town to/from various activities. So let's add "4-seats for families" to my previous list of what will make a highly marketable EV: range, speed, fueling accessibility, comfort, style, reliability and safety. So far Nissan seems to have all the right ideas with the Leaf, although I haven't had the chance to ride or sit in one yet...can't wait for a test drive!

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I, for one, love exotic looking vehicles. I don't like it when people say this car or that car is ugly. Beauty, my friend, is in the eye of the beholder. Just ask my wife. Maybe not, then she may realize her opinion on the matter and that might not be the way I want it. However, when I look in the mirror, man am I good looking. If I were a car, people would really want to buy me. (c:}~ 

I applaud the efforts of anyone trying to produce and promote electric vehicles. Blue Sky Design builds parts and plans for the perfect efficiency vehicle. Most people drive most of the time alone in their cars less than 40 miles an hour for less than 40 miles a day. The Blue Sky Design's BugE is that vehicle. For liability purposes and other reasons they don't produce a turnkey vehicle. The Myers Motors NmG, formerly known as the Corbin Sparrow vehicle fits in that category too. These types of vehicles should be our primary modes of transport for everyday use, however, we simply have other needs and we typically can't afford a vehicle that efficiently meets every need. So we have to find a vehicle that meets most of our regular needs while still being more efficient. 

Saying that these vehicles were stupid was a little too hard. I consider Bob Beaumont, whose vehicle is pictured at the front of the podcast, a hero for having put forth the Seabring VanGuard's CitiCar. For a short, glorious moment in time, he was America's 5th largest producer of automobiles, behind GM, Ford, Chrysler and American Motors Corporation. I wished he would have succeeded in staying in the market. I don't think Elon Musk was even born yet, to offer help. Given that Beaumont's second attempt at producing and electric car was the Tropica, a scorching hot two seat convertible, featured in the TV show Nash Britches as the Xebra, who knows what he would have produced in the long run. Bob Beaumont is legend, still alive I believe, living near Columbia, Maryland. A man who put all his wealth behind two ventures to try to bring electric vehicles to the public. The only thing I can think of doing is saluting those types of efforts. 

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Joe's arguments about the utility of a vehicle are quite reasonable.  However, I am a bit worried about where this argument ends up.  Isn't this the same argument that lead people to purchase so many SUVs.  I have a friend that the moment she became pregnant purchased a Ford Excursion because she obviously NEEDED it.

  So what is the range of utility

1) walking
2) bicycling
3) moped
4) single seater EV
5) motorcycle
6) 2 seater car (SMART or Tesla)
7) compact car (Corolla)
8) full size car
9) compact SUV
10) minivan
11) full size SUV
12) full size van
13) minibus

Doesn't the utility argument force you to purchase the largest vehicle possible.  After all, it has the most utility.  Too many people have used the utility argument and we now have a large fleet of SUVs in service as a result.  It seems like we need another model for people to follow.

   Perhaps the model is "curb appeal".  We need vehicles with great "curb appeal".  Someone once stated that BMW has done more than any other company to improve fuel economy.  I didn't understand this at first but then I realized he was talking about the Mini-Cooper.  The Mini-Cooper is a car the people love to buy and just happens to be fuel efficient.  If we can get people excited by the style of the vehicle, perhaps the fuel efficiency can just be an afterthought.

   Personally, I gave up a Toyota Sienna minivan to get a Prius.  There are times that I miss the "utility" of the Sienna.  The Prius has great utility due to the hatchback design, but it is still much more limited.  However, I have switched from an 18MPG vehicle to a 55MPG vehicle and I think that is good for both me personally and for the country as a whole.  However, I think people should realize that the Prius is not a sacrifice vehicle.  I don't have to "suffer" to drive it.  It is a great car.  Some of the small EV's do appear to be "sacrifice" vehicles.  On the other hand, they are still more luxurious and have more utility than my bicycle.

John C. Briggs

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John,

I agree with you. Unfortunately there is no way to stop people from making wasteful choices. There was a woman who lived in Georgetown, Washington, DC. Small, narrow cobble stone streets that parked a Ford Excursion. She also wasn't more than 4 feet tall, but owned and walked two enormous Mastiffs. When she was parked it was hard to get by her car. She didn't have a country home. She didn't have any reason to own such a massive vehicle. Her mode of living was to intimidate everyone else. Like Forest Gump says. "Stupid is as stupid does."

If  you are a contractor, it doesn't make any sense for you to try to live with a vehicle that doesn't fit your needs. If you are a city dweller you may not really need a vehicle at all or a bicycle might do. But if you are a typical family with typical family needs than what ever car you feel best fits your needs is the car you should be able to buy. Provided you put a reality check on those supposed needs. If you don't use your vehicle but once a year to get wood, or haul stuff, then you don't need a big ass SUV or a pickup truck. Rent one for  the day. You will save money as well as save the environment. However, if you are given a choice between an electric SUV or pickup and a gasoline version, choose the electric version because it will be more efficient. That is if it fits your true needs.

Given that, when you make a vehicle that can only be used for one specific purpose, the utility is going to be limited. I think the car market in the United States and the World for that matter probably supports niches for such vehicles. I personally, want to see electric vehicle products in the fattest part of the market, because producing vehicles that have millions of potential customers brings factors such as economies of scale into play. Once batteries are produced in the millions, their unit costs become cheap. This allows for inexpensive adaptation to other vehicles. This is true for all of the EV car parts. One vehicle aimed at the fattest part of the market that sells even as little as 10 thousand vehicles will mean that the factory producing the batteries will have a sales order of somewhere between 100 units to a million units depending on the size of the battery. A million units means that factory will be able to arrive at profitability, its fixed costs will be distributed over many units so the cost per unit goes down, they will be able to purchase materials in large bulk quantity providing another area of cost savings, and on and on. Something that will benefit the niche market players as well.

Lots of good feedback folks. Thank you.

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What does the Destiny 2000 have in common with the ZAP Xebra, besides both being electric?

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